Catena distribuzione "allungata": problemi

[Ale1975]

Man mano che l'Alfa "progredisce", probabilmente non esisterà più tra 20 anni
Tonale è la mia quarta Alfa e l'ultima Alfa della mia vita.

Lo hai già detto e ribadito più volte
Sarebbe utile che il forum sia costruttivo , non un contenitore di polemiche

 

[Hyperiky]

Lo sapete che, a prescindere dal fatto che la catena sia troppo debole o meno, valutarla guardando la sua dimensione significa avere un concetto tecnico/scientifico fermo al nonno di Leonardo Da Vinci? Sarebbe come dire che l'albero di trasmissione della Giulia in carbonio fa cagarə perché è leggero. Non vorrei essere frainteso nel senso che non voglio assolutamente difendere ad oltranza Alfa o Tonale, ma se vogliamo dire che c'è un problema di progettazione, cosa che, qualora fosse vera, sarebbe molto interessante approfondire, sarebbe bene portare degli argomenti con una certa fondatezza su cui ragionare

Bravissimo hai centrato il concetto . Anche io a partito preso non voglio difendere alcune scelte, ma di certo non ho le competenze per stabilire il carico di una catena in funzione del suo spessore. Inoltre ci sono fattori come maneggevolezza, peso ecc ecc. Resto quindi dell’idea che i danni possano accadere a qualsiasi motore (o oggetto).

 

[MarekT]

Bravissimo hai centrato il concetto . Anche io a partito preso non voglio difendere alcune scelte, ma di certo non ho le competenze per stabilire il carico di una catena in funzione del suo spessore. Inoltre ci sono fattori come maneggevolezza, peso ecc ecc. Resto quindi dell’idea che i danni possano accadere a qualsiasi motore (o oggetto).

yes you are right, if you have time start with checking others engines and their components and problems. You willsee thickness, width, and number of elements, if you will find PNs and serial numbers code of manufacturer you can easy find material list from subsupplier like I did. I have material list with parameters this chain is 15class of steel, which is used on chains for bicycles, motorbikes and engines,... specific type "morse chain" is used for engines timing chains. directly this chain is dimensions for 7000-8000rpm and load 8000lbs... width is not more than8mm .... next one bigger stronger is cca 10mm width with higher load capability... this chain is buypart from subsupplier.... for example engine 2,4 from fca which is mounted for us market have this stronger type (but they also have problems) you can find tonales chain type in very old models of us cars from fca for example chrysler pt cruiser gasoline engine.... shorter version is used for firefly 1,3.... problem is that firefly 1,3 have only one camshaft... chain is shorter (during duty there will be less wear in the parts because there are fewer of them) tonale engine is twinshaft with prolonged chain... more chain articles more oportunity of wear parts.... more prolonge.... I have several technical lists but like i told i will nothing share with people whos hate me and buling me for language.... this is same what last regime in40s did or one old man from east is doing now... and of course i will not shown my ID card or university diplom (technical manufacturing university)... only one info I´m working for company which is number 1 in automotive... supplier for each brand worldwide... we are famous according our chasis, gearbox, stearing, brakes, shocks, engine parts (delivered for each brand and each price category)... and yes some parts we deliver also for this car

 

[ciomauro]

yes you are right, if you have time start with checking others engines and their components and problems. You willsee thickness, width, and number of elements, if you will find PNs and serial numbers code of manufacturer you can easy find material list from subsupplier like I did. I have material list with parameters this chain is 15class of steel, which is used on chains for bicycles, motorbikes and engines,... specific type "morse chain" is used for engines timing chains. directly this chain is dimensions for 7000-8000rpm and load 8000lbs... width is not more than8mm .... next one bigger stronger is cca 10mm width with higher load capability... this chain is buypart from subsupplier.... for example engine 2,4 from fca which is mounted for us market have this stronger type (but they also have problems) you can find tonales chain type in very old models of us cars from fca for example chrysler pt cruiser gasoline engine.... shorter version is used for firefly 1,3.... problem is that firefly 1,3 have only one camshaft... chain is shorter (during duty there will be less wear in the parts because there are fewer of them) tonale engine is twinshaft with prolonged chain... more chain articles more oportunity of wear parts.... more prolonge.... I have several technical lists but like i told i will nothing share with people whos hate me and buling me for language.... this is same what last regime in40s did or one old man from east is doing now... and of course i will not shown my ID card or university diplom (technical manufacturing university)... only one info I´m working for company which is number 1 in automotive... supplier for each brand worldwide... we are famous according our chasis, gearbox, stearing, brakes, shocks, engine parts (delivered for each brand and each price category)... and yes some parts we deliver also for this car

Ecco, ora hai esposto qualche concetto in più, rispetto a dire semplicemente che il progetto è errato mostrando una foto e dicendo che è "una catena di bicicletta". La catena dovrebbe reggere 7000/8000 giri, quindi qui ci siamo. Poi 8000 lbs (sono tante ? Sono poche? ). Non lo sapremo mai perché poi però hai ripreso la cattiva strada, dicendo chiaramente che non vuoi condividere altri dati di cui sei a conoscenza e che di conoscenza ne hai molta perché sei un tecnico/esperto del settore. Un po' come dire: "Lei non sa chi sono io !". E comunque continueremo a non saperlo, dato che non vuoi dirci niente, perché paragoni il forum (faccio fin fatica a scriverlo, ma mi sforzo...) a un regime autoritario degli anni '40 con cui non vuoi scambiare informazioni, perché ti senti oppresso (ma allora perché scrivi sul forum? Si fa un po' fatica a capirlo... Vabbè... diciamo che la coerenza non è proprio una delle tue caratteristiche). Poi, lasciamelo dire, questo tuo atteggiamento del "Io lo so ma non lo dico", devi ammettere che è un po' puerile.
Un'ultima cosa: qui non ti odia nessuno, non sei così importante. Nel forum trovi e troverai, al 99%, solo persone appassionate di auto il cui obiettivo è approfondire i problemi e capire il più possibile della propria auto e del mondo automotive in generale.
Concludo con....

 

[gigalfa]

yes you are right, if you have time start with checking others engines and their components and problems. You willsee thickness, width, and number of elements, if you will find PNs and serial numbers code of manufacturer you can easy find material list from subsupplier like I did. I have material list with parameters this chain is 15class of steel, which is used on chains for bicycles, motorbikes and engines,... specific type "morse chain" is used for engines timing chains. directly this chain is dimensions for 7000-8000rpm and load 8000lbs... width is not more than8mm .... next one bigger stronger is cca 10mm width with higher load capability... this chain is buypart from subsupplier.... for example engine 2,4 from fca which is mounted for us market have this stronger type (but they also have problems) you can find tonales chain type in very old models of us cars from fca for example chrysler pt cruiser gasoline engine.... shorter version is used for firefly 1,3.... problem is that firefly 1,3 have only one camshaft... chain is shorter (during duty there will be less wear in the parts because there are fewer of them) tonale engine is twinshaft with prolonged chain... more chain articles more oportunity of wear parts.... more prolonge.... I have several technical lists but like i told i will nothing share with people whos hate me and buling me for language.... this is same what last regime in40s did or one old man from east is doing now... and of course i will not shown my ID card or university diplom (technical manufacturing university)... only one info I´m working for company which is number 1 in automotive... supplier for each brand worldwide... we are famous according our chasis, gearbox, stearing, brakes, shocks, engine parts (delivered for each brand and each price category)... and yes some parts we deliver also for this car

Quindi, la catena di distribuzione montata su Tonale è conforme ?

 

[Hyperiky]

Ragazzi, oggi altro viaggio, circa 4h di autostrada, sono arrivato un'altra volta a destinazione con la mia catena piccolina, che fortuna!

 

[Hyperiky]

yes you are right, if you have time start with checking others engines and their components and problems. You willsee thickness, width, and number of elements, if you will find PNs and serial numbers code of manufacturer you can easy find material list from subsupplier like I did. I have material list with parameters this chain is 15class of steel, which is used on chains for bicycles, motorbikes and engines,... specific type "morse chain" is used for engines timing chains. directly this chain is dimensions for 7000-8000rpm and load 8000lbs... width is not more than8mm .... next one bigger stronger is cca 10mm width with higher load capability... this chain is buypart from subsupplier.... for example engine 2,4 from fca which is mounted for us market have this stronger type (but they also have problems) you can find tonales chain type in very old models of us cars from fca for example chrysler pt cruiser gasoline engine.... shorter version is used for firefly 1,3.... problem is that firefly 1,3 have only one camshaft... chain is shorter (during duty there will be less wear in the parts because there are fewer of them) tonale engine is twinshaft with prolonged chain... more chain articles more oportunity of wear parts.... more prolonge.... I have several technical lists but like i told i will nothing share with people whos hate me and buling me for language.... this is same what last regime in40s did or one old man from east is doing now... and of course i will not shown my ID card or university diplom (technical manufacturing university)... only one info I´m working for company which is number 1 in automotive... supplier for each brand worldwide... we are famous according our chasis, gearbox, stearing, brakes, shocks, engine parts (delivered for each brand and each price category)... and yes some parts we deliver also for this car

Ne so quanto prima. Post del tutto inutile, grazie per il contributo

 

[ciomauro]

Quindi, la catena di distribuzione montata su Tonale è conforme ?

No, certo che no. L'ha già detto più volte, ma non chiedergli il motivo tecnico, dato che ha detto che non vuole condividere informazioni con un forum di nazisti... fascisti... stalinisti... khmer rossi.... insomma... cose così...

 

[Mgaproduction]

No, certo che no. L'ha già detto più volte, ma non chiedergli il motivo tecnico, dato che ha detto che non vuole condividere informazioni con un forum di nazisti... fascisti... stalinisti... khmer rossi.... insomma... cose così...

Hai dimenticato pure campanilisti

 

[MarekT]

Tu ste teraz odhalili niekoľko ďalších konceptov, než len povedať, že projekt je nesprávny tým, že ste ukázali fotografiu a povedali, že je to "reťaz na bicykel". Reťaz by mala držať 7000/8000 ot./min., takže sme tu. Potom 8000 libier (je to veľa? Je ich málo? ). Nikdy sa to nedozvieme, pretože ste sa opäť vydali nesprávnou cestou a jasne ste povedali, že nechcete zdieľať ďalšie údaje, ktoré poznáte a že máte veľa vedomostí, pretože ste technik/odborník v tejto oblasti. Trochu ako povedať: "Nevieš, kto som!". A každopádne to nebudeme vedieť aj naďalej, pretože nám nechcete nič povedať, pretože fórum prirovnávate (ťažko sa mi to píše, ale snažím sa...) k autoritárskemu režimu 40. rokov, s ktorým si nechcete vymieňať informácie, pretože sa cítite utláčaní (ale prečo potom píšete na fóre? Je to trochu ťažké pochopiť ... Studňa... povedzme, že konzistentnosť nie je v skutočnosti jednou z vašich charakteristík). Potom vám poviem, že tento váš postoj "viem, ale nehovorím to", musíte uznať, že je trochu detinský.
Posledná vec: nikto vás tu nenávidí, nie ste až taký dôležitý. Na fóre nájdete a nájdete 99% len ľudí, ktorí sú nadšení pre autá, ktorých cieľom je prehĺbiť problémy a pochopiť čo najviac o svojom aute a automobilovom svete všeobecne.
Uzatváram s ....

Visualizza allegato 290608

8000Lbs is nothing... I have it in motorbike... you have heavy duty mechanic tension during mhev starts in transfer between ev to comustion engine... this is reason why somebody still writing stupid comments from higway :-D city users with 100s starts per day have broken cars after 30k km... why should i share my personal things ? ID cards or what... what do you want to see drawings from my company ? my id company card ? my contract ? my wife or what ?.... and yes you buly people for language like regime during 40s... from 3 members every 3rd comment in forums also in others theme I see USE ITALIAN!!!!! no i donňt speak italian and if admins agree my english I will use it because i speak in4 languages pey lessons for me I will speak with you after several yeras in your language. thx and have a nice day afterword remember on my word when you will stay in service like other customers and dream about correct chain which price is less than 50€ is the cheapest morse type which you can buy... by stay positive others brand use 1pcs for 100€ and width is double time bigger than this small neck chain...